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Houda Golf Resort, Skanes, Monastir

  • Thread starter Alice in wonderland
  • Start date
A

Alice in wonderland

Guest
start? well start at the beginning? (Alice through the looking glass, Chapter 12, Lewis Carol)
In July, this year i stayed at this hotel In Tunisia. It was a complete last minute thing as i badly needed a break and so went on my own.
Within hours of entering the hotel Slimey Salim (spa man) had homed in on me. As this is not really about him, I will keep this part brief. In short, he came to my room offered me a free massage, talked his way in, asked If he could use my shower and basically exposed himself!!! I gave him short thrift, he never bothered me again.
.....still reeling, and a few days later I got into a conversation with a male who worked in the hotel jewellery stall. He asked me If I would like to go for a coffee (surprise, surprise) After becoming bored I agreed. I mentioned the Salim episode and he explained to me that he was not Tunisian, and that Tunisian men target women at the hotels with the intention of either, a quick liason or with the hope that they can marry a European for a visa. He went on to say that Tunisian men will marry an English woman, for eg., eventually move to the U.K., stay for approx 2 years, and then return to Tunisia and marry a Muslim woman because I their eyes we are "no good" I asked what would happen If they had children? and he replied that they would try to avoid that by suggesting they wait. I had to hide my shock and asked him how people could be so callous, he just shrugged.
Following this, I had nothing better to do than just sunbathe and observe the behaviour of the hotel staff. The game playing was obvious. They deliberately target women of any age, and set about the grooming process. I can't tell you how many times I was asked why I did'nt have a wedding ring on and If I wanted to go for coffee, drinks, looking for a boyfriend etc. I watched so many women and young girls taken In by the false sincerity they display.
Fast forward...Before I left the hotel I exchanged my E-Mail add with the Algerian (jewellery shop guy) I reasoned that If he was honest enough to tell me about "the plan", then he was honest?
Since then I have had texts and live chats with him on MSN but I started to get suspicious. He sent me a photograph of himself and obviously forgot he had a wedding ring on!! The "relationship" as he called it started to gather momentum. There has been love songs and words of love, by text and MSN.. nearly everyday, blahhh. When i asked him for his full name (Facebook!! haha), he stalled. He also has different E-Mail adds. Here's a few.....Mallick Bello, Hamido3227 and RedExo. Ring any bells ladies?
I then asked him for his Facebook link for a friend (I have'nt got an account) obviously because I was becoming curiouser and curiouser (like Alice), he said he had forgotten his password and so had to make a new profile. I had already anticipated this and told him so.
I toyed with the idea, on his bequest of visiting him at the end of this month (Sept) But because of the above and more (too much to mention) I told him It was over.
This was his last text a few days ago: Since the very beginning our "relationship" has only been bout (sic) tricks and traps that you set up 4 me while I was all bout feelings nd emotions what a nut nd naif (?) Ive been.....anyway Ive failed all of ur tests being Im right or wrong, right? Finaly I think u still not ready 4 any relationship simpl y- cuz u dont know the real meaning of that word nd u ignore its all bout....im tired nd fed up too.
After reading the posts on this site, I,m not 100% but I really think I was at the early stage of becoming a bezness prospect?
I had no idea about this kind of thing? Given what I have just learned how do we go about putting a stop to this, or at least warning people? I,m pondering???
 

mezoo

The Decider
"came to my room offered me a free massage, talked his way in, asked If he could use my shower and basically exposed himself!!!" :eek:

hi alice, welcome to the forum. not to be callous or anything but any woman who lets this happen needs to re-examine her sense of security. especially in a new country. glad for you though nothing bad happened... :cool:
 

mezoo

The Decider
p.s. this will never ever stop and warnings will do nothing to someone who is insecure and naive, in any country on earth.
 
A

Alice in wonderland

Guest
Thanks Mezoo, he was a bit of charmer ol, Salim but yeah you are right could of been worse. Good job I,ve been around the block a few times. I worry about others who are younger or more nieve and thats why I posted this.
 
A

Alice in wonderland

Guest
You really think so? I am just thinking about E-Mailing the tourist Commission for Tunisia, they don,t want this out, It,s bad for the tourist industry. I have also contacted my local M.P. to discuss matters. Just toying around with Ideas.
In reality, this smacks of organised crime. Think about it, extortion and fake marriages.
 
S

sparkle

Guest
Good for you anything that stops the ratty behaviour and saves other's heartache I'm for.
 
A

Alice in wonderland

Guest
Cheers Sparkle, you know the worst part for me was the realisation that these men think we are "worthless" when compared to women of their own culture,??
 
M

marilyna

Guest
Alice,

I don't think it can be stopped. There are loads of women out there who do not know sites like this exist. I think awareness of bezness is essential, and warning people who go out there. Whenever I go to a new country, I buy a Lonely planet guide, and Rough guide, and read about the scams in that country. Posting about your experience is useful to warn others, and telling friends,family etc if you feel comfortable what it was like out there. Clearly, the entire male population in Tunisia are not rats, but Bezness exists, no ifs,buts or maybes.
 
M

marylou

Guest
yep its there for sure and i think it will be for a long time theres always gonna be a new batch landing who dont no any better and think there new lovely bf can do no wrong...... but like we all find out alls not what it seems and some read sites like this and no the score and others find out them selfs and come and warn others.....
 

CUDDLE

Major Ratslayer
I think that the bezness has a lot more exposure in the main stream press lately and this is positive. However the bezness will never stop, because emotions are involved. Women fall for the guys cos they are good at making you believe in them completely. It is so alien to our culture the depths these men can sink to if they need to. We have read the stories on here how a rat will tell his g/f that his mother/ father etc etc has died and play the story to the final conclusion and beyond........to us this has to be true, who would lie about something as serious as this???Well a rat would and does and this is just one example of how they will lie, there are plenty more stories they use to extort money.

It is organised and planned and it is crime, in the past a blind eye was turned to it but i think authorities are now realising the damaging effect it is has had on the country, and im sure more will be done to punish those participating in this type of activity, if/when they get caught
 
D

DragonZest

Guest
It is organised and planned and it is crime, in the past a blind eye was turned to it but i think authorities are now realising the damaging effect it is has had on the country, and im sure more will be done to punish those participating in this type of activity, if/when they get caught

I think this would be the hard part though. The rats are so good that their game that the authoritys would have a hard time catching up to them. How would the authoritys know if it is true love or not? Very very difficult.....
 
M

marylou

Guest
yeh the woman will know if its true love when shes skint.....
 

CUDDLE

Major Ratslayer
I agree this is most definitely the hard part. I suppose the victim would have some evidence to prove their case esp with money given.....get everything in writing.

Immigration is closing the net too and there are many changes afoot to stop the visa scams.....It is going to be imperitive to show a genuine relationship in the future and a couple are going to have to be together for a longer period before a visa can be applied for, this is just one of many changes proposed.

A rats chances of getting to U.K will still be possible, but his game plan will have to be a lot longer, might put a few off??
 
D

DragonZest

Guest
I have heard if woman taking men to court in Tunisia regarding money but they need proof that the money is not a gift and that it was given as a loan but how many woman do you think go to the bother of getting a contract drawn up with a lawyer before they hand over money to their boyfriend? My guess is none!

I have been reading about the new proposed changes to immigration into the UK as it has been posted on T.com recently. There is alot of it I agree with but also alot of things haven't been specified.

One thing is being married or been with them for 12 months before you can apply for a visa but does that mean that you must live with them for 12 months (even if it's totalling the amount of time you have physically spent with them whilst there on holiday) or just knowing them 12 months via some holidays, msn, skype etc....they really need to specify this and other things.

I do like that they will not be able to sponsor anyone to come to the UK even if their marriage breaks down so it means that the rats can't divorce their British wife then bring over their new Tunisian wife (who has been waiting in the background all these years). Also states that the foreigner will have to come to the UK twice on a visitors visa before they can apply for a spouse visa - this would be great and it may open their eyes to see that no, we do not walk the streets of gold here. On the other hand, it could cause worse problems for the genuine ones as it is very very VERY difficult for Tunisians to obtain visitors visas for the UK....so are they going to relax this slightly to allow them to come here as a visitor???

Sorry, just things I've been thinking about since I read all that
 

CUDDLE

Major Ratslayer
Even when a contract is drawn up if things go wrong how many would pursue it cos of the stress of it all, when you are at a low point it is really difficult to face all that kind of stuff.

Some of the proposed changes are vague i agree, but there are a few things there that i think will help.

I think if i have read it right you will have to show that you have spent quite a bit of time with the person, before you can apply for a visa in theory this is a good proposal but in practise very difficult with work commitments etc.

I think the visitor visa is one area that definitely needs to be addressed as it would open up a lot of eyes. Im sure this one change alone would save a lot of heartache.

Money is going to be a key issue to as they are raising the amount you have to earn to sponser, this is really unfair, for genuine people who love each other (and yes i believe some of the men are for real) if that couple have limited funds they may be refused on that alone. Who says money cant buy you love.:(
 
D

DragonZest

Guest
Exactly Cuddle! If I was heartbroken I would not be wanting to spend my time travelling back and forth for court hearings and contacting lawyers etc. To be honest, I am sooo glad that I accidently stumbled on this website because it truly has opened my eyes and made me learn so much which I know will stop me making simple mistakes (well at least not as many lol).

Yes, I agree that alot of time should be spent with the person, I still can't get my head around how some woman have married having only met their partner once, or not at all in some cases (i'm meaning that they know them from the internet only and their first meeting is their wedding, im not talking about arranged marriages as such). Maybe it does work for some but I know that it would not work for me. Most people only get 5-6 weeks holiday a year from their work and even then alot of people cannot afford to go away for that length of time.

Yes, the visitor visa would be fantastic but as it stands now it would not work so I'm interested to see how they will go about opening it up. Obviously the government are worried about overstayers so want to make all visa conditions really tough but who is to say that because a guy still lives with his parents or rents (i.e. no property owned) or because he doesn't have a huge salary that he will be likely to overstay. Especially if he is intending to move here to be with his wife/girlfriend then he should be more inclined to stick to the visitor visa conditions and ensure he is out of the country before it expires as this will be a plus point for him if he applies for a spouse visa and will obviously mean he is not banned from entering the UK for XXX years.

I have seen that also. It is a shame and I do feel for those who will be affected by it who are in true love etc. It means that after the word spreads about this then the rats are going to be more inclined to hang around outside the more expensive hotels etc in hope of finding a woman who has plenty of money to be a sponsor so maybe instead of targeting all woman, they will only target certain ones (I mean the rats that are in particular looking for a visa).

Due to all this I know for certain that if the time came to it, I couldn't sponsor my fella to come over here. I certainly won't earn enough to support us and my children so there is not a chance in hell although to be honest, I'm not that bothered....personally I think that if I got him the visa to move here there would always be that cloud of doubt hanging over me anyways
 
A

Alice in wonderland

Guest
Hmmm...I have drafted a letter to my local M.P. with the help of a local cllr., asking them to write to the tourist industry and put pressure on hotel owners and management. They need to monitor their staff more closely. I watched many men arrange to meet women at a bar/cafe just over the road from the hotel and noticed the same men meeting different women.
They don't leave the hotel with women, however, as It seems like the hotels are trying to put a stop to it.
At the moment In Tunisia, jobs are scarce. I imagine the Hotels can do without a bad reputation as it's bad for business and hopefully this In turn will be bad for bezness.
 
N

NetNiet

Guest
Hello Alice in W. when I read your posts I feel you blame the Tunisian men, but what about the responsibility from the European women? They are giving money, expensive presents, getting a visa soon for their boyfriend, getting married after a few times have been here at holiday..........

You really think so? I am just thinking about E-Mailing the tourist Commission for Tunisia, they don,t want this out, It,s bad for the tourist industry. I have also contacted my local M.P. to discuss matters. Just toying around with Ideas.
In reality, this smacks of organised crime. Think about it, extortion and fake marriages.
Not every marriage is fake and organised crime.....?Again there is allways also a European women involved who is also responsible for what she is doing!

In short, he came to my room offered me a free massage, talked his way in, asked If he could use my shower and basically exposed himself!!! I gave him short thrift, he never bothered me again.
I can't believe it.......how can you let a strange men in your room and let him shower? You didn't know him! It's dangerous.
And if a men in your own country comes at your front door, he is charming and wants to take a shower, you let him into your house aswell? I bet you don't, isn't it?
And that is to my personal opinion right away a big part off the problems, because Europan women act differently when they are here on holiday than they would do at home!
So what I'm asking you, who was wrong in this situation, the Tunisian men who came into your room and took a shower, or you because you let a total stranger into your room and taking a shower.........or maybe both......?!

Given what I have just learned how do we go about putting a stop to this, or at least warning people?
Well instead off going to official organisation try to reach the European women that they have to stay with 2 feet at the ground while they enjoy their holiday love!

Cheers Sparkle, you know the worst part for me was the realisation that these men think we are "worthless" when compared to women of their own culture,??
I can understand it's not nice to hear to be worthless. But again there are a lot off good marriages aswell.
And I have to say that never would a Tunisian women let a charming Tunisian men into her room to take a shower. Even when she knew the men, but if she is not married, she would not do that, that is not accepted in their culture!
For their culture it's als not accepted that a women drinks alcohol, that a womens go on holiday alone, have sex before marriage etc. etc.

And they see a lot of that behaviour by Europan women.......so try to see also things tru their eyes!
 
L

lucy jane

Guest
start? well start at the beginning? (Alice through the looking glass, Chapter 12, Lewis Carol)
In July, this year i stayed at this hotel In Tunisia. It was a complete last minute thing as i badly needed a break and so went on my own.
Within hours of entering the hotel Slimey Salim (spa man) had homed in on me. As this is not really about him, I will keep this part brief. In short, he came to my room offered me a free massage, talked his way in, asked If he could use my shower and basically exposed himself!!! I gave him short thrift, he never bothered me again.
.....still reeling, and a few days later I got into a conversation with a male who worked in the hotel jewellery stall. He asked me If I would like to go for a coffee (surprise, surprise) After becoming bored I agreed. I mentioned the Salim episode and he explained to me that he was not Tunisian, and that Tunisian men target women at the hotels with the intention of either, a quick liason or with the hope that they can marry a European for a visa. He went on to say that Tunisian men will marry an English woman, for eg., eventually move to the U.K., stay for approx 2 years, and then return to Tunisia and marry a Muslim woman because I their eyes we are "no good" I asked what would happen If they had children? and he replied that they would try to avoid that by suggesting they wait. I had to hide my shock and asked him how people could be so callous, he just shrugged.
Following this, I had nothing better to do than just sunbathe and observe the behaviour of the hotel staff. The game playing was obvious. They deliberately target women of any age, and set about the grooming process. I can't tell you how many times I was asked why I did'nt have a wedding ring on and If I wanted to go for coffee, drinks, looking for a boyfriend etc. I watched so many women and young girls taken In by the false sincerity they display.
Fast forward...Before I left the hotel I exchanged my E-Mail add with the Algerian (jewellery shop guy) I reasoned that If he was honest enough to tell me about "the plan", then he was honest?
Since then I have had texts and live chats with him on MSN but I started to get suspicious. He sent me a photograph of himself and obviously forgot he had a wedding ring on!! The "relationship" as he called it started to gather momentum. There has been love songs and words of love, by text and MSN.. nearly everyday, blahhh. When i asked him for his full name (Facebook!! haha), he stalled. He also has different E-Mail adds. Here's a few.....Mallick Bello, Hamido3227 and RedExo. Ring any bells ladies?
I then asked him for his Facebook link for a friend (I have'nt got an account) obviously because I was becoming curiouser and curiouser (like Alice), he said he had forgotten his password and so had to make a new profile. I had already anticipated this and told him so.
I toyed with the idea, on his bequest of visiting him at the end of this month (Sept) But because of the above and more (too much to mention) I told him It was over.
This was his last text a few days ago: Since the very beginning our "relationship" has only been bout (sic) tricks and traps that you set up 4 me while I was all bout feelings nd emotions what a nut nd naif (?) Ive been.....anyway Ive failed all of ur tests being Im right or wrong, right? Finaly I think u still not ready 4 any relationship simpl y- cuz u dont know the real meaning of that word nd u ignore its all bout....im tired nd fed up too.
After reading the posts on this site, I,m not 100% but I really think I was at the early stage of becoming a bezness prospect?
I had no idea about this kind of thing? Given what I have just learned how do we go about putting a stop to this, or at least warning people? I,m pondering???

Hellooo i stayed at this hotel in june and i had that man offering me free massarges !! i just ignored him he was very pushy and followed me and my friend around claiming how beautiful my blue eyes are saying there his favourite haha and then saying the exact same about my friends brown eyes while i was stood there i found it very amusing .. i know who the jewallary store man is too he tried it on a couple of times with me and my friend always trying to grab out attention on the way to dinner ! we had a few otheres with the dining room staff too .. the animation team where quite pushy toward sme but iwouldnt speak to them as i was with my fella, but however my friend got into a tricky postiion with one of them he say he love her and next day he was with an old women when my friend is a very beautiful girl this knocked her self confidence i say it shouldnt as he was just wanting moeny and new the older lady would have more !! did you have qa good holiday other than that ?? xx
 
L

lucy jane

Guest
Hmmm...I have drafted a letter to my local M.P. with the help of a local cllr., asking them to write to the tourist industry and put pressure on hotel owners and management. They need to monitor their staff more closely. I watched many men arrange to meet women at a bar/cafe just over the road from the hotel and noticed the same men meeting different women.
They don't leave the hotel with women, however, as It seems like the hotels are trying to put a stop to it.
At the moment In Tunisia, jobs are scarce. I imagine the Hotels can do without a bad reputation as it's bad for business and hopefully this In turn will be bad for bezness.

safari bar ?? yeah we went there alot and there was alot of the hotel staff pestering us but they are very careful as they are not aloowed to be spending so much time with the young girls they got into alot of trouble becasue of this my partner had been working there for one week at the hotle and his boss told him to keep away from me as he stayed with me at the shows and he ended up getting sacked he knew this would happen, but i think it good the management are strict , we did see a couple of the animation team from different women to women but however some where actualy ok and wasnt doing this .. alot of the animation team quit at houda its all new people now xx
 
M

marylou

Guest
Hello Alice in W. when I read your posts I feel you blame the Tunisian men, but what about the responsibility from the European women? They are giving money, expensive presents, getting a visa soon for their boyfriend, getting married after a few times have been here at holiday..........

Not every marriage is fake and organised crime.....?Again there is allways also a European women involved who is also responsible for what she is doing!

I can't believe it.......how can you let a strange men in your room and let him shower? You didn't know him! It's dangerous.
And if a men in your own country comes at your front door, he is charming and wants to take a shower, you let him into your house aswell? I bet you don't, isn't it?
And that is to my personal opinion right away a big part off the problems, because Europan women act differently when they are here on holiday than they would do at home!
So what I'm asking you, who was wrong in this situation, the Tunisian men who came into your room and took a shower, or you because you let a total stranger into your room and taking a shower.........or maybe both......?!

Well instead off going to official organisation try to reach the European women that they have to stay with 2 feet at the ground while they enjoy their holiday love!

I can understand it's not nice to hear to be worthless. But again there are a lot off good marriages aswell.
And I have to say that never would a Tunisian women let a charming Tunisian men into her room to take a shower. Even when she knew the men, but if she is not married, she would not do that, that is not accepted in their culture!
For their culture it's als not accepted that a women drinks alcohol, that a womens go on holiday alone, have sex before marriage etc. etc.

And they see a lot of that behaviour by Europan women.......so try to see also things tru their eyes!
i have also seen tunisian women coming in to the bars loving up and hanging on to a older tunisian man he buys her food all nite and drink they then leave the bar together so im sure that they are not married and was going home to have sex.... the same woman in another bar the next nite with a differment man and the men look in there late 40s so must have a nice charming tunisian wife at home with his children..... so for their culture this must be accrpted?
 
L

lucy jane

Guest
i agree not everyone sticks to there culture either sex x
 
A

Alice in wonderland

Guest
I posted this as a warning to others.. This was my personal experience. I,m not going to argue the toss over who is to blame here. The message Is the "marriage game" is more organised than people think. My opinion. Enough said.
 
C

crazypink

Guest
Houda was and is full of men looking for women - depends if your daft enough to fall for it. But then the same can be said for alot of hotels.

If you think of the hundreds of women going in and out of the hotels through-out the summer, all wanting to have a good time and usually have alot of money (in comparrison with a tune guy), you can see why the guys are like moths to a flame. And Netniet is right - how is it the guys fault if the woman is throwing cash at the guy?? Take two to tango!! There is enough of these sites now with enough warnings to women before they go there.

Not all tune guys are rats - you can usually tell the ones who are by how they act with the women. But each to their own and if thats what floats your boat then good luck to you. These ladies will defend their men and claim they have a good relationship.

Alice in wonderland - are you crazy letting a strange guy into your hotel room??? And why did you not report this to the hotel manager? The next lady may not be so lucky!!
 
N

NetNiet

Guest
i have also seen tunisian women coming in to the bars loving up and hanging on to a older tunisian man he buys her food all nite and drink they then leave the bar together so im sure that they are not married and was going home to have sex.... the same woman in another bar the next nite with a differment man and the men look in there late 40s so must have a nice charming tunisian wife at home with his children..... so for their culture this must be accrpted?
No it's not accepted in their culture and if you could understand them than you know how they talking about that.
Could it be that the women was working? And although that kind off work is also not accepted here, offcourse it excist.
 
N

NetNiet

Guest
I posted this as a warning to others.. This was my personal experience. I,m not going to argue the toss over who is to blame here. The message Is the "marriage game" is more organised than people think. My opinion. Enough said.

Yes I understand you want to warn other persons, but you did yourself something that will make them doing it the next time. You let a stranger into your room and let him take a shower, I bet he was disappointed that he didn't get more from you, but he learned that he asked and you let him in your room, so maybe the next European women will give him more than a shower........

You are rewarded his behavior / his asking, with him letting taking a shower in your room!
Wouldn't it be normal like Crazypink did write to fill a complaint by the hotel when he was standing OUTSIDE your door and not leting him into your room?

That is what I'm trying to say, European women do other things than they (hopefully) normally doing at home. The Tunisian men only respond to that.
So who has to change.....?

So if you want to talk about the marriage game, it's pretty much the same as your shower story.....
European women come here on holiday, maybe 3 or 4 times max 2 weeks each time, so they meet the Tunisian men 8 weeks in real life....well real life, no way offcourse because they are on holiday, beach, palm trees, alcohol and fun, so you can't call it real life to my opinion....than the 5th time they are getting married here and after that getting the visa for him.
That is very common how it goes.
Can you tell me how many women, how common is it in your country that women are getting married after knowing their boyfrined for 8 weeks....?!
I suppose the answer that it isn't very common....?
So who has to change.....? The European women who is getting married after maybe only knowing him 8 weeks, something she wouldn't think about to do that in her own country or the Tunsian men who asked the European women to marry him and she said yes....?

So I understand from your message that you don't want to toss about who is to blame and that you have enough said, but pleas if you really want to do something and if you really want to reach the Europan women, you have to look in the mirror, have to take responsibility aswell and from that point you have a right basis to reach European women. But by only blaming the Tunisian men, you will not reach the European women to protect themselves if that is necessarily, you will only reach that a group off women are blaming the Tunisian men and talking bad about them.......well there are already places enough worldwide at the internet for that.... ;-)
 
N

NetNiet

Guest
Hellooo i stayed at this hotel in june and i had that man offering me free massarges !! i just ignored him he was very pushy and followed me and my friend around claiming how beautiful my blue eyes are saying there his favourite haha and then saying the exact same about my friends brown eyes while i was stood there i found it very amusing .. i know who the jewallary store man is too he tried it on a couple of times with me and my friend always trying to grab out attention on the way to dinner ! we had a few otheres with the dining room staff too .. the animation team where quite pushy toward sme but iwouldnt speak to them as i was with my fella, but however my friend got into a tricky postiion with one of them he say he love her and next day he was with an old women when my friend is a very beautiful girl this knocked her self confidence i say it shouldnt as he was just wanting moeny and new the older lady would have more !! did you have qa good holiday other than that ?? xx

Well isn't it funny first he tried it with you but he didn't get a shower at your room and the jewelery men didn't stay in contact with you or your friend. The next month one get a shower and the jewelery men did stay in contact with Alice, what will bring the next month for these 2 men.....?
 
M

marylou

Guest
No it's not accepted in their culture and if you could understand them than you know how they talking about that.
Could it be that the women was working? And although that kind off work is also not accepted here, offcourse it excist.
yeh they would have been working women and seeing that sort of job as been around for hundreds of years... yers there women looking for men to make money by having sex with them also there men who do the same its all over the world some times you dont have to be throwing money at them some just come up and ask if you want to buy sex.. I think in any country any thing goes Tunisia is no different......
 
M

marilyna

Guest
What shocked me last year was a Libyan pimp blatantly selling his girls in my hotel reception. The girls had dinner in the restaurant altogether, then came into the lobby later, and did their thing. Had breakfast altogether, then left the hotel in the morning. Reception staff could see what was going on. Yet unmarried couples have to produce marriage certificates to stay in a room together.

Where is the logic?
 
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